tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post8969987118249086801..comments2024-03-04T06:12:38.695+13:00Comments on Photo-Sleuth: Sepia Saturday 134: Normanton "Rec"Brett Paynehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-11811729803223492312012-07-17T09:10:10.053+12:002012-07-17T09:10:10.053+12:00Thanks Joy, and glad to hear that your playground ...Thanks Joy, and glad to hear that your playground is busy - a vibrant neighbourhood!Brett Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-86029714272358874942012-07-17T05:22:46.760+12:002012-07-17T05:22:46.760+12:00Everything was so ornamented at this time I always...Everything was so ornamented at this time I always enjoy the detail given to even everyday objects. So much going on in these photos I just loved looking at the elements you picked out. Our local play area is always full but its not the size of the Normanton Rec.Joyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00253875352864018195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-83702733391001137062012-07-16T09:42:40.886+12:002012-07-16T09:42:40.886+12:00Good ideas Nell + Mr Nell. I couldn't decide ...Good ideas Nell + Mr Nell. I couldn't decide whether he was lining something up, or watching Mr Scarratt at his work. As for the girls, well I never know what they're up to!Brett Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-18159571278199002342012-07-16T07:09:40.937+12:002012-07-16T07:09:40.937+12:00Brett, my husband has suggested that the little la...Brett, my husband has suggested that the little lad is not trying to poke his eye out but, from the way he is squinting, he is ‘sighting’ or ‘lining up’. He also suggested rickets for the little girl who we are agreed is probably on crutches. Perhap they are going to mark out a game with a lump of chalk. That might explain why the girls are peering at the ground.Little Nellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11862657943846727987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-10707744577018222982012-07-15T21:46:38.118+12:002012-07-15T21:46:38.118+12:00I loved your post. Maybe I just have a soft spot ...I loved your post. Maybe I just have a soft spot for babies and children as I am enjoying all posts this week. 466-468 were my favourites.<br /> -Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06636761469099608281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-80250961488344388022012-07-15T20:18:22.177+12:002012-07-15T20:18:22.177+12:00Mike: I think you have a point there. Initially S...Mike: I think you have a point there. Initially Scarratt seems to have produced general scenes, printed in Germany as were most others of the time. As time went on, he seemed to have specialised on more local scenes, probably in limited print runs, which would have been of less interest to the big publishers like Valentines, Photochrom, etc. For the more popular scenes of city centres and tourist spots, there was just too much competition.<br /><br />Good find with the servants in the census records. I feel the photobooth portrait comes from at least the 1930s, perhaps later, but I'm not so good at dating clothing from that late.Brett Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-13155981768114812192012-07-15T17:01:39.310+12:002012-07-15T17:01:39.310+12:00Another fascinating mix of social and photographic...Another fascinating mix of social and photographic history, Brett. Such common childhood scenes would make nice postcards for auntie to buy at the local shops, but how many do you think they typically printed?<br /><br />I'm flattered you were inspired to search for my mystery twins. I considered doing the same but their birth year of 1911-12 left only the 1920 census to use and by that time they might have moved. I only wish there were more detailed search features on the census records. <br /><br />But you inspired me to do my due diligence and reexamine the census records for the families I do know lived in my home and I was surprised to discover the names of not one but two black household servants. One was a woman who worked until 1938 so now I have a probable name! So thanks for the effort.Mike Brubakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13065245846262417519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-8790364944316983662012-07-15T10:35:03.602+12:002012-07-15T10:35:03.602+12:00Lisa B, Howard, Kathy M, whowerethey & imagesp...Lisa B, Howard, Kathy M, whowerethey & imagespast: Thanks for your commentsBrett Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-14255749194047504762012-07-15T10:33:26.872+12:002012-07-15T10:33:26.872+12:00Bob S: You may have passed closer to Normanton - o...Bob S: You may have passed closer to Normanton - or New Normanton, to give it its proper name, and to distinguish it from South Normanton - than you realized. It is the southern Derby suburb immediately adjacent to Litchurch, which is where the railway good yards are/were, and where most of the Midland Railways employees lived. Both areas grew enormously from the 1880s onwards, and my gg-grandfather <a href="http://photo-sleuth.blogspot.co.nz/2009/04/henry-henrietta-payne-noble-life.html" rel="nofollow">Henry Payne</a> built many houses in the area - both for clients and on spec - during that time. Bladensburg Street - mentioned by Nigel in an earlier comment - was almost certainly named after the area in Maryland where Henry unsuccessfully tried to settle in 1880.Brett Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-52785767096970130942012-07-15T10:24:27.296+12:002012-07-15T10:24:27.296+12:00Postcardy: Yes, very lucky. Rod Jewell, who must ...Postcardy: Yes, very lucky. Rod Jewell, who must have spoken to family members in the course of researching his book, wrote, "... after his death ... thousands of photographs, negatives and postcards were thrown away." Clearly some have survived, and I'm obviously wondering if there are any more lurking somewhere in a dusty corner.Brett Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-26148514129013840572012-07-15T10:19:18.511+12:002012-07-15T10:19:18.511+12:00Wendy: No, I haven't heard of single-sex playg...Wendy: No, I haven't heard of single-sex playgrounds either, and it does seem a little odd, even for Edwardian times, although perhaps the boys' playground was close by, just out of camera shot.Brett Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-29310001436600911042012-07-15T10:16:35.144+12:002012-07-15T10:16:35.144+12:00Kristin: The same thought - about the empty buggie...Kristin: The same thought - about the empty buggies - occurred to me, and I think you're right. They would probably have come to the playground from some distance away, which perhaps smaller children couldn't manage without assistance, particularly if being looked after by older siblings, as many seemed to be.Brett Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-5029818724319570532012-07-15T10:13:47.095+12:002012-07-15T10:13:47.095+12:00Little Nell: I've sent you a detailed scan of ...Little Nell: I've sent you a detailed scan of the negative, and perhaps you will be able to deduce a few further clues? This study of the playground brings to mind a post I wrote some years ago (<a href="http://photo-sleuth.blogspot.co.nz/2009/02/letter-to-america-moment-in-life-of.html" rel="nofollow">Letter to America</a>) which included accounts of playground antics by my Normanton family in the 1890s. One often sees studio photos of children with toys, but vernacular photos from the late 1800s and early 1900s depicting children at play are not nearly as common.Brett Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-24908582983285156692012-07-15T10:05:32.533+12:002012-07-15T10:05:32.533+12:00Nigel: I have seen an X-ray (then called a skiagra...Nigel: I have seen an X-ray (then called a skiagraphic) in the service records of a soldier from the Canadian Expeditionary Force during the Great war, so they definitely were around. I thought they might be crutches too. Well I've heard of Röntgen - what can I say? I'd appreciate a photo of Normanton Rec once the Olympics are over, thank you. About the pavilion - I don't really think it was a railway carriage - it seems a little small for that - but it has similar design aspects, and I thought it could well have been built by folk from the carriage works, where my great-grandfather was employed at one time.Brett Paynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07706734864792449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-27563845514744940932012-07-15T06:30:14.025+12:002012-07-15T06:30:14.025+12:00Fascinating and detailed research, Brett. You too...Fascinating and detailed research, Brett. You took us on an interesting journey with this prompt :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-73575702864839998002012-07-15T06:13:36.413+12:002012-07-15T06:13:36.413+12:00Fascinating that you found the exact plate of the ...Fascinating that you found the exact plate of the photo you remembered!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-62895256802966098452012-07-15T05:56:17.925+12:002012-07-15T05:56:17.925+12:00You always amaze me, Brett. You get so much detail...You always amaze me, Brett. You get so much detail and information from these postcards. The recreation grounds round here never seem to be in use except as the place to thow empty drinks cans. I spent nearly 3 years working with BR in Derby but never as far as I know got anywhere near Normanton.Bob Scotneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00662958579705940009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-17031928496484612752012-07-15T03:52:31.004+12:002012-07-15T03:52:31.004+12:00Wow, Brett, another excellent article. I enjoyed ...Wow, Brett, another excellent article. I enjoyed learning of the history and all of your pictures. Thank you.<br /><br />Kathy M.Oregon Gifts of Comfort and Joyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07171271956883698673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-538101787239943012012-07-15T00:17:55.378+12:002012-07-15T00:17:55.378+12:00That was a lucky find on eBay and it is interestin...That was a lucky find on eBay and it is interesting that you were able to find similar pictures used on postcards in one of your books.Postcardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16399915833682943432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-30633071867012998002012-07-14T11:20:27.225+12:002012-07-14T11:20:27.225+12:00Another comment...this time relevant.
It looks to...Another comment...this time relevant.<br /><br />It looks to me as if you have an old horse drawn tram for the kids to play in.<br /><br />It should help you with dating. The new electric trams came in in 1904.<br /><br />But I am not convinced it is a Derby tram. I think the roof-line is not the same as the trams in an original photo I have of my John Dean ancestor drapery shop in St Peter's Street Derby. I think the image has been used by you on Photosleuth, but it is also at:<br />http://www.picturethepast.org.uk/frontend.php?action=printdetails&keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;DRBY001651&prevUrl= <br /><br />NigelNigel Aspdin (Derby, UK)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11287696605570389587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-63410435426373063212012-07-14T10:15:29.281+12:002012-07-14T10:15:29.281+12:00Great postcards!Great postcards!Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07556727166267551805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-60227206100404414152012-07-14T05:24:01.802+12:002012-07-14T05:24:01.802+12:00I enjoyed this glimpse into a different time. I&#...I enjoyed this glimpse into a different time. I've never heard of gender-separate playgrounds. That must have been rather tricky for Mom or the Nanny to manage.Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17863357756727783017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-16944493000142940172012-07-14T05:22:33.545+12:002012-07-14T05:22:33.545+12:00Oh yes...now I remember, it was Bladensburg Street...Oh yes...now I remember, it was Bladensburg Street, Normanton. It sounded a trifle German but in fact it was presumably named after:(Wiki)...."The Battle of Bladensburg took place during the War of 1812. The defeat of the American forces there allowed the British to capture and burn the public buildings of Washington, D.C. It has been called "the greatest disgrace ever dealt to American arms."............ Well, only indirectly "German", but certainly anti German intolerance was at such a height that even the sound was sufficient to offend.<br /><br />The street was re-named Birdwood Street. (Wiki):....."Field Marshal William Riddell Birdwood (1865 – 1951) was a First World War British general who is best known as the commander of the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) during the Gallipoli Campaign in 1915......"Nigel Aspdin (Derby, UK)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11287696605570389587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-38257733020719654092012-07-14T04:33:44.211+12:002012-07-14T04:33:44.211+12:00So many empty buggies. Wonder where the little kid...So many empty buggies. Wonder where the little kids were? I guess they were big enough to run around but not to walk to the park.Kristinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06413795611563683135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4599702957095945938.post-46180684393457616512012-07-14T02:56:49.552+12:002012-07-14T02:56:49.552+12:00Great post and what a lovely find! I love all the...Great post and what a lovely find! I love all the details!Lisa Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10562101358640638937noreply@blogger.com